Name: obtaining primary osteocytes through murine calvarial fractionation of gfp-expressing osteocytes
Uploaded: 2020-06-02T15:00:00
Description: Watch this Scientific Journal Video about Obtaining Primary Osteocytes Through Murine Calvarial Fractionation of GFP-Expressing Osteocytes at JoVE.com

This work was supported in part by a JSPS KAKENHI grant from the Japan Society for the Promotion of Science (No. 19K10397 to H.K. and No. 18K09862 to I.M.).

All animal procedures and animal care were performed in accordance with Tohoku University rules and regulations.
1. Dissection of newborn dmp1-topaz mouse calvaria
<ol>
	<li>For this protocol, use 6&#8210;7 day old pups of C57BL/6-Tg(Dmp1-Topaz)1Ikal/J mice. Euthanize mice with 5% isoflurane inhalation and then transfer the pups into 70% ethanol.</li>
	<li>Transfer the euthanized pup into a non-treated culture dish.</li>
	<li>Using scissors and tweezers, grab the skin at the base of the skul...

<ol>
	<li>Manolagas, S. C. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Birth+and+death+of+bone+cells:+basic+regulatory+mechanisms+and+implications+for+the+pathogenesis+and+treatment+of+osteoporosis.">Birth and death of bone cells: basic regulatory mechanisms and implications for the pathogenesis and treatment of osteoporosis.</a> Endocrine Reviews. 21 (2), 115-137 (2000).</li><li>Bonewald, L. F. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Osteocytes+as+Dynamic+Multifunctional+Cells.">Osteocytes as Dynamic Multifunctional Cells.</a> Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences. 1116 (1), 281-290 (2007).</li><li>Bonewald, L. F. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Mechanosensation+and+Transduction+in+Osteocytes.">Mechanosensation and Transduction in Osteocytes.</a> BoneKEy osteovision. 3 (10), 7-15 (2006).</li><li>Feng, J. Q., et al. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Loss+of+DMP1+causes+rickets+and+osteomalacia+and+identifies+a+role+for+osteocytes+in+mineral+metabolism.">Loss of DMP1 causes rickets and osteomalacia and identifies a role for osteocytes in mineral metabolism.</a> Nature Genetics. 38 (11), 1310-1315 (2006).</li><li>Lane, N. E., et al. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Glucocorticoid-Treated+Mice+Have+Localized+Changes+in+Trabecular+Bone+Material+Properties+and+Osteocyte+Lacunar+Size+That+Are+Not+Observed+in+Placebo-Treated+or+Estrogen-Deficient+Mice.">Glucocorticoid-Treated Mice Have Localized Changes in Trabecular Bone Material Properties and Osteocyte Lacunar Size That Are Not Observed in Placebo-Treated or Estrogen-Deficient Mice.</a> Journal of Bone and Mineral Research. 21 (3), 466-476 (2005).</li><li>Dallas, S. L., Prideaux, M., Bonewald, L. F. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=The+Osteocyte:+An+Endocrine+Cell+...+and+More.">The Osteocyte: An Endocrine Cell ... and More.</a> Endocrine Reviews. 34 (5), 658-690 (2013).</li><li>van der Plas, A., Nijweide, P. J. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Isolation+and+purification+of+osteocytes.">Isolation and purification of osteocytes.</a> Journal of bone and mineral research : the official journal of the American Society for Bone and Mineral Research. 7 (4), 389-396 (1992).</li><li>Westbroek, I., De Rooij, K. E., Nijweide, P. J. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Osteocyte-specific+monoclonal+antibody+MAb+OB7.3+is+directed+against+Phex+protein.">Osteocyte-specific monoclonal antibody MAb OB7.3 is directed against Phex protein.</a> Journal of bone and mineral research : the official journal of the American Society for Bone and Mineral Research. 17 (5), 845-853 (2002).</li><li>Gu, G., Nars, M., Hentunen, T. A., Metsikk&#246;, K., V&#228;&#228;n&#228;nen, H. K. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Isolated+primary+osteocytes+express+functional+gap+junctions+in+vitro.">Isolated primary osteocytes express functional gap junctions in vitro.</a> Cell and Tissue Research. 323 (2), 263-271 (2006).</li><li>Kramer, I., et al. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Osteocyte+Wnt/&#946;-Catenin+Signaling+Is+Required+for+Normal+Bone+Homeostasis.">Osteocyte Wnt/&#946;-Catenin Signaling Is Required for Normal Bone Homeostasis.</a> Molecular and Cellular Biology. 30 (12), 3071-3085 (2010).</li><li>Kato, Y., Windle, J. J., Koop, B. A., Mundy, G. R., Bonewald, L. F. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Establishment+of+an+Osteocyte-like+Cell+Line,+MLO-Y4.">Establishment of an Osteocyte-like Cell Line, MLO-Y4.</a> Journal of Bone and Mineral Research. 12 (12), 2014-2023 (1997).</li><li>Kato, Y., et al. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Establishment+of+an+osteoid+preosteocyte-like+cell+MLO-A5+that+spontaneously+mineralizes+in+culture.">Establishment of an osteoid preosteocyte-like cell MLO-A5 that spontaneously mineralizes in culture.</a> Journal of bone and mineral research : the official journal of the American Society for Bone and Mineral Research. 16 (9), 1622-1633 (2001).</li><li>Zhang, C., Bakker, A. D., Klein-Nulend, J., Bravenboer, N. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Studies+on+Osteocytes+in+Their+3D+Native+Matrix+Versus+2D+In+Vitro+Models.">Studies on Osteocytes in Their 3D Native Matrix Versus 2D In Vitro Models.</a> Current Osteoporosis Reports. 17 (4), 207-216 (2019).</li><li>Woo, S. M., Rosser, J., Dusevich, V., Kalajzic, I., Bonewald, L. F. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Cell+line+IDG-SW3+replicates+osteoblast-to-late-osteocyte+differentiation+in+vitro+and+accelerates+bone+formation+in+vivo.">Cell line IDG-SW3 replicates osteoblast-to-late-osteocyte differentiation in vitro and accelerates bone formation in vivo.</a> Journal of bone and mineral research : the official journal of the American Society for Bone and Mineral Research. 26 (11), 2634-2646 (2011).</li><li>Spatz, J. M., et al. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=The+Wnt+Inhibitor+Sclerostin+Is+Up-regulated+by+Mechanical+Unloading+in+Osteocytes+in+Vitro.">The Wnt Inhibitor Sclerostin Is Up-regulated by Mechanical Unloading in Osteocytes in Vitro.</a> The Journal of biological chemistry. 290 (27), 16744-16758 (2015).</li><li>Gillet, J. P., Varma, S., Gottesman, M. M. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=The+clinical+relevance+of+cancer+cell+lines.">The clinical relevance of cancer cell lines.</a> Journal of the National Cancer Institute. 105 (7), 452-458 (2013).</li><li>Sandberg, R., Ernberg, I. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Assessment+of+tumor+characteristic+gene+expression+in+cell+lines+using+a+tissue+similarity+index+(TSI).">Assessment of tumor characteristic gene expression in cell lines using a tissue similarity index (TSI).</a> Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. 102 (6), 2052-2057 (2005).</li><li>Kalajzic, I., et al. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Dentin+matrix+protein+1+expression+during+osteoblastic+differentiation,+generation+of+an+osteocyte+GFP-transgene.">Dentin matrix protein 1 expression during osteoblastic differentiation, generation of an osteocyte GFP-transgene.</a> Bone. 35 (1), 74-82 (2004).</li><li>Paic, F., et al. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Identification+of+differentially+expressed+genes+between+osteoblasts+and+osteocytes.">Identification of differentially expressed genes between osteoblasts and osteocytes.</a> Bone. 45 (4), 682-692 (2009).</li><li>Nakashima, T., et al. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Evidence+for+osteocyte+regulation+of+bone+homeostasis+through+RANKL+expression.">Evidence for osteocyte regulation of bone homeostasis through RANKL expression.</a> Nature Medicine. 17 (10), 1231-1234 (2011).</li><li>Kalajzic, I., et al. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=In+vitro+and+in+vivo+approaches+to+study+osteocyte+biology.">In vitro and in vivo approaches to study osteocyte biology.</a> Bone. 54 (2), 296-306 (2013).</li><li>Chia, L. Y., Walsh, N. C., Martin, T. J., Sims, N. A. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Isolation+and+gene+expression+of+haematopoietic-cell-free+preparations+of+highly+purified+murine+osteocytes.">Isolation and gene expression of haematopoietic-cell-free preparations of highly purified murine osteocytes.</a> Bone. 72, 34-42 (2015).</li><li>Halleux, C., Kramer, I., Allard, C., Kneissel, M., Helfrich, M. H., Ralston, S. H. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=.">.</a> Bone Research Protocols. , 55-66 (2012).</li><li>Bernhardt, A., Wolf, S., Weiser, E., Vater, C., Gelinsky, M. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=An+improved+method+to+isolate+primary+human+osteocytes+from+bone.">An improved method to isolate primary human osteocytes from bone.</a> Biomedizinische Technik (Berlin). 65 (1), 107-111 (2020).</li></ol>

The first isolated osteocyte was from a chicken calvaria7 isolated by using (OB7.3) or the aviant variant of PHEX; however, this method is limited by the availability of workable antibodies, as osteocyte-specific antibodies that are also specie-specific have to be manufactured. Researchers used a different modification of the sequential enzymatic process to obtain osteocytes from mouse and rat long bones; the reported purity of these cultures were set at about 70%9. The dev...

Osteocytes are terminally differentiated cells from osteoblastic progenitors that became embedded in their secreted matrix1. They are the most abundant and longest-living cells among bone cell populations. They reside within lacunae and have a characteristic stellate morphology with dendrites that extend through channels called canaliculi forming an extensive network of communication and metabolic exchange with their surrounding environment and the bone surface2. Osteocytes choreograph both osteoblasts and osteoclasts roles in bone remodeling, they are the primary mechanosensory cells conferring adaptation to mechanical loading3, are involved in phosphate homeostasis4 and bone matrix mineralization5, and together with the lacunocanalicular system, they act as an endocrine organ signaling distant tissues6.
Osteocytes are situated within a mineralized matrix, which limits accessibility and renders their isolation challenging, thus hindering in vitro investigation. One of the first isolation methods described isolated osteocytes from chicken calvaria using an osteocyte-specific monoclonal antibody (OB7.3)7 which was later known to be the avian variant of PHEX (PHosphate-regulating gene with homology to Endopeptidases on the X chromosome)8. Other researchers used sequential digestion of rat9 or mouse10 long bones to obtain osteocyte-rich fractions in which osteocyte purity was reported to be around 70%9. Limitations of this procedure include the sub-optimal purity of cultures contaminated with other cell types besides osteocytes and that osteocytes could be potentially overgrown by other cells in culture since osteocytes have lost the ability to divide. These challenges restrict the usability of long term cultures.
To overcome these limitations, different osteocyte cell lines were developed. The MLO-Y4 cell line11 and the MLO-A5 cell line12 are notably the most widely studied cell lines which are useful for the study of the early stage osteocytes; however, they are less useful for studying mature osteocyte signaling as they express low levels of sclerostin and FGF2313, both of which are mature osteocyte markers. Other cell lines including IDG-SW314 and Ocy45415, express high levels of sclerostin and FGF23 and are useful in studying the late osteocyte stage. Cell lines prove to be useful research tools; nevertheless, they do not come without limitations as they do not fully represent the biology of the primary cell. Different cell lines represent different developmental stages of the osteocyte maturity spectrum, and cell lines fail to represent the heterogeneity of primary osteocytes16,17.
To obtain pure cultures of primary osteocytes, researchers took advantage of the cre mouse model in which the 8-kb dmp1 promoter is used to drive green fluorescent protein (GFP) expression in osteocytes18,19. Dual transgenic mice (pOB-Col 2.3- GFP-cyan and DMP1-GFP-topaz) by Paic et al.19 and dmp1-topaz transgenic mice by Nakashima et al.20 have been used to obtain osteocyte populations. In which they employed sequential digestion and FACS of osteocytes expressing GFP to acquire cultures of primary osteocytes19,20. The direction of cre in the 10-kb dmp1 reporter mouse Ai9, which activates the tdTomato protein, was shown to be present in osteocytes, osteoblasts, muscles, and cells within the bone marrow. The 8-kb dmp1 promoter had the same expression pattern, but only a proportion of osteoblasts and bone marrow cells expressed the protein, which indicates that the 8-kb dmp1 promoter is more specific21. Despite this, results obtained using the 8-kb dmp1 promoter should be interpreted with caution, and gene expression profiles should be routinely carried out using osteocyte vs. osteoblast-specific markers to ensure that the population obtained is of high enough purity.
Osteoclast markers OSCAR and Dcstamp were found in hematopoietic non-depleted vs. depleted osteocyte populations, this finding led the authors to conclude that digests obtained from fractionation of 8-kb dmp1-topaz neonatal calvaria and GFP sorting are contaminated with hematopoietic cells. Contamination with hematopoietic cells could have been mitigated by tightening the GFP sort gate since GFP-positive hematopoietic cells had a reasonably lower GFP intensity than GFP-positive mesenchymal cells (osteocytes)22.
The methods for studying osteocytes in vitro have contributed to the recent wealth of information on osteocyte biology. However, osteocyte isolation remains a labor-intensive and lengthy procedure with low cell yields. The described method of bone digestion using collagenase and EDTA often up to fraction 823, takes several hours in which osteocyte viability is taxed. Researchers have reported using fractions (2&#8210;5) for cell sorting20, and have shown that the expression profile of genes associated with osteocytes versus those of osteoblasts confirms the success of isolating pure osteocyte populations20. In this article, we describe the process of obtaining fractions (2&#8210;5), and we compare the yield of osteocytes from each fraction starting with fraction 1 through 8 to determine the return of osteocytes in each fraction. We also describe the dissection of newborn dmp1-topaz mouse calvaria and calvarial digestion using collagenase and ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA), as well as, preparation of cells for FACS.

<table>
	<tbody>
		<tr>
			<td>BD FACSDiva software</td>
			<td>BD Biosciences</td>
			<td></td>
			<td>Data aquisition and analysis</td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>BD Falcon Tube</td>
			<td>BD Biosciences</td>
			<td>352235</td>
			<td>12 x 75 mm Tube with Cell Strainer Cap, 35 &#956;m nylon mesh.</td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>Bovine serum albumin (BSA)</td>
			<td>Sigma-Aldrich, MO, USA</td>
			<td></td>
			<td></td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>Collagenase</td>
			<td>Wako, Osaka, Japan</td>
			<td>034-22363</td>
			<td>0.2% (w/v), crude collagenase mix sourced from C. histolyticum.</td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>EDTA</td>
			<td>Dojindo, Kumamoto, Japan</td>
			<td></td>
			<td>5mM EDTA prepared with 0.1% BSA</td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>FACSAriaTM II</td>
			<td>BD Biosciences</td>
			<td></td>
			<td></td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>Fetal bovine serum (FBS)</td>
			<td>Biowest, Nuaill&#233;, France</td>
			<td></td>
			<td></td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>Isolation buffer</td>
			<td></td>
			<td></td>
			<td>70mM NaCl, 10mM NaHCO, 60mM sorbitol, 3mM K2HPO4, 1mM CaCl2, 0.1% (w/v) BSA, 0.5% (w/v) glucose and 25 mM HEPES</td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>Millex Sterile Filter Unit</td>
			<td>Merck Millipore, Ireland</td>
			<td>SLGV033RS</td>
			<td>0.22&#956;m</td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>Nylon cell strainer</td>
			<td>FALCON, NY, USA</td>
			<td></td>
			<td>40&#956;m</td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>Trypsin-EDTA</td>
			<td>Life Technologies, NY, USA</td>
			<td></td>
			<td>0.5% x10. diluted to x1 in PBS</td>
		</tr>
		<tr>
			<td>&#945;-MEM</td>
			<td>Wako, Osaka, Japan</td>
			<td></td>
			<td>Containing 10% fetal bovine serum, 100 IU/ml penicillin G, and 100 &#956;g/ml streptomycin</td>
		</tr>
	</tbody>
</table>

obtaining primary osteocytes through murine calvarial fractionation of gfp-expressing osteocytes

The osteocyte, once thought to be a passive resident of the bone given the backstage function of sensing mechanical loading, is now brought to the spotlight and has been shown to have multiple major functions like actively modifying the extracellular matrix and forming an endocrine organ with the lacunocanalicular system that encloses it sending messages to distant sites. Owing to the methods that made it possible to test the osteocyte in vitro from isolating primary osteocytes to osteocyte-like cell lines, osteocytes are now experiencing a resounding interest and a surge of knowledge on structure and function. Many aspects of the osteocyte biology and interaction with other molecular components are yet to be discovered. In this protocol, we describe in detail the efficient isolation of primary osteocytes from dmp1-topaz neonatal mouse calvaria, which express the green fluorescent protein in osteocytes, through cell fractionation and subsequently acquiring cultures of primary osteocytes by FACS.

The purpose of this protocol is to demonstrate the process of obtaining cultures of primary osteocytes from dmp1-topaz neonatal mouse calvaria through a fractionation process using collagenase to degrade the collagen matrix and EDTA for calcium chelation, after which cells are prepared for FACS to separate osteocytes from other cell populations.
Methods for obtaining primary osteocytes from neonatal mouse calvaria often describe the use of fractions (1&#8210;8) for sorting23<...

Watch this Scientific Journal Video about Obtaining Primary Osteocytes Through Murine Calvarial Fractionation of GFP-Expressing Osteocytes at JoVE.com

Obtaining Primary Osteocytes Through Murine Calvarial Fractionation of GFP-Expressing Osteocytes

This protocol describes the dissection of neonatal dmp1-topaz mouse calvaria and isolation of osteocytes expressing the green fluorescent protein through cell digestion and fractionation, in addition to osteocyte preparation for fluorescence activated cell sorting (FACS).

The osteocyte, once thought to be a passive resident of the bone given the backstage function of sensing mechanical loading, is now brought to the ...

Research

JoVE Journal

Biology

Obtaining Eggs from Xenopus laevis Females

The eggs of Xenopus laevis intact, lysed, and/or fractionated are useful for a wide variety of experiments. This protocol shows how to induce egg laying, ...

Preparation and Fractionation of Xenopus laevis Egg Extracts

Crude and fractionated Xenopus egg extracts can be used to provide ingredients for reconstituting cellular processes for morphological and biochemical ...

The Preparation of Primary Hematopoietic Cell Cultures From Murine Bone Marrow for Electroporation

It is becoming increasingly apparent that electroporation is the most effective way to introduce plasmid DNA or siRNA into primary cells. The Gene Pulser ...

Primary Culture and Plasmid Electroporation of the Murine Organ of Corti. 

In all mammals, the sensory epithelium for audition is located along the spiraling organ of Corti that resides within the conch shaped cochlea of the ...

Using the GELFREE 8100 Fractionation System for Molecular Weight-Based Fractionation with Liquid Phase Recovery

The GELFREE 8100 Fractionation System is a novel protein fractionation system designed to maximize protein recovery during molecular weight based ...

Transplantation of GFP-expressing Blastomeres for Live Imaging of Retinal and Brain Development in Chimeric Zebrafish Embryos

Cells change extensively in their locations and property during embryogenesis. These changes are regulated by the interactions between the cells and their ...

In situ Subcellular Fractionation of Adherent and Non-adherent Mammalian Cells

In situ Subcellular Fractionation of Adherent and Non-adherent Mammalian Cells

Protein function is intimately coupled to protein localization. Although some proteins are restricted to a specific location or subcellular compartment, ...

Polysome Fractionation and Analysis of Mammalian Translatomes on a Genome-wide Scale

mRNA translation plays a central role in the regulation of gene expression and represents the most energy consuming process in mammalian cells. ...

Application of Retinoic Acid to Obtain Osteocytes Cultures from Primary Mouse Osteoblasts

The need for osteocyte cultures is well known to the community of bone researchers; isolation of primary osteocytes is difficult and produces low cell ...